new GPU - really old Mobo!

[brundall]

My wifes computer consists of a really old (but great) Intel i440BX mobo with a Pentium 3 600E. It currently has an even older Nvidia TNT Vanta 16mb GPU in it (youch!).

My question is this - seeing that the mobo can only run at AGP 2X speeds what would be the fastest GPU you guys would recommend I upgrade it to. Obviously, I would be buying second hand for cheap.

Any modern GPU would be severely CPU limited I know but what video card from the past but still available would fill an AGP2X transfer rate?? Would it be better getting a PCI video card to go in there??

[TiMiRoNi]

Well, really the first question I would ask is what kind of games, or what do you do with that compy?

[geforce_man]

cards that *should* work... but might not ;)

geforce 256 sdr
geforce 256 DDR
geforce 2 GTS
geforce 2 GTS-
geforce 2 pro
geforce 2 ultra
(and any other weird geforce 2 vairants)

i know there was, back when they first came out, people who had gotten ti 4200/4400's to run on 2x agp mobo's, but it really depended more on the mobo, than on the card. Just make sure if you do get a geforce 4 series, to get one of the first generation of them, the later ones were designed for AGP 8x.

[Ninja7]

You need to get a 2x/4x card. Most of those should work on that board.

The problem is that many graphics cards didnt strictly follow the AGP specs, you can get AGP 2.0 cards that will run on both 3.3 and 1.5 signalling yet also get some that are 1.5 only. Wrong voltages will damage the mobo or GFX.

For the fastest solution your best bet would be a 64MB Ti4200, those are first generation AGP 4x/2x and should step down to 3.3v at AGP2x. You can get 128mb versions of these and you will be able to tell by the mem clocks which would be 444Mhz (222x2) on the 1st gen ones. GF3s should also work but if they do then so should first gen GF4Ti's so rather go for the GF4.

The safest bet would be a GF2 based card. GF2 GTS would probably be a good bet if you can find one.
Later models like the 64mb GF2 MX400s came on newer PCBs so im not too sure on those.
A Radeon 7500 or 8500 would also be a good choice if you can find one in working order.

Though another issue is the motherboard itself, even with the right spec card it still might not work with the "newer" ones like the GF3/4 and Radeon 8500. Might have needed a BIOS update or something but due to the age of the board the manufacturers probably wouldnt have bothered to fix support for it.

[Horrorwood]

You need to get a 2x/4x card. Most of those should work on that board.

The problem is that many graphics cards didnt strictly follow the AGP specs, you can get AGP 2.0 cards that will run on both 3.3 and 1.5 signalling yet also get some that are 1.5 only. Wrong voltages will damage the mobo or GFX.

For the fastest solution your best bet would be a 64MB Ti4200, those are first generation AGP 4x/2x and should step down to 3.3v at AGP2x. You can get 128mb versions of these and you will be able to tell by the mem clocks which would be 444Mhz (222x2) on the 1st gen ones. GF3s should also work but if they do then so should first gen GF4Ti's so rather go for the GF4.

The safest bet would be a GF2 based card. GF2 GTS would probably be a good bet if you can find one.
Later models like the 64mb GF2 MX400s came on newer PCBs so im not too sure on those.
A Radeon 7500 or 8500 would also be a good choice if you can find one in working order.

Though another issue is the motherboard itself, even with the right spec card it still might not work with the "newer" ones like the GF3/4 and Radeon 8500. Might have needed a BIOS update or something but due to the age of the board the manufacturers probably wouldnt have bothered to fix support for it.

Good info.

Left you some +Rep.

A point i'd add is, dont pay over the odds for a card for that pc... A prebuilt $200 pc would probably be faster...Atleast by looking at the deals tbogstad gets... they are!

[brundall]

Thank-you all for the informative replies.

I actually went over to my buddies house tonight and he had an old Nvidia FX 5200 128 Mb GPU (64bit unfortunately) that he wasn't using. He still had the original manual for it and it said that the card was compatible with AGP 1x / 2x / 4x and 8x!! slots and had texturing support for AGP 2x / 4x and 8x.

So I brought it home and slapped it in the wifes mobo (no jokes please) and ....it works!

I thought I would try a run of 3Dmark05 for fun and got an average framerate of 1 frame per second!!! - it was painful.

At least it works though. I wonder if I am damaging the mobo though after the comments by Ninja7

[kingpotnoodle]

Thank-you all for the informative replies.

I actually went over to my buddies house tonight and he had an old Nvidia FX 5200 128 Mb GPU (64bit unfortunately) that he wasn't using. He still had the original manual for it and it said that the card was compatible with AGP 1x / 2x / 4x and 8x!! slots and had texturing support for AGP 2x / 4x and 8x.

So I brought it home and slapped it in the wifes mobo (no jokes please) and ....it works!

I thought I would try a run of 3Dmark05 for fun and got an average framerate of 1 frame per second!!! - it was painful.

At least it works though. I wonder if I am damaging the mobo though after the comments by Ninja7

Should be fine, ax FX5200 is a decent match for the system, anything the graphics can't handle neither can the CPU.

I wouldn't worry at all [thumbup]

[Ninja7]

At least it works though. I wonder if I am damaging the mobo though after the comments by Ninja7

No, it would only damage it if it didnt support the right voltage (as i said this is rare, but some manufacturers didnt follow the spec 100%).

If it works then its good, you dont have to worry about it damaging anything. Its obviously capable running the right voltage at AGP2x which is 3.3V [yes].

Dont worry about it being 64bit since its running DDR, GF2MXs and GF1s would have been SDR @ 128Bit so its roughly the same in terms of raw bandwidth except than the FX series have crossbar memory architecture and various other bandwidth saving methods.

Its a decent pairing IMO, anything more powerful would have been overkill. Back in the day when i had a P3 550 i used a TNT2 Pro, GF2MX, GF2Ti and a Radeon 9000Pro on it. The CPU bottlenecked everything except the TNT.
You should trying OCing the 5200 a bit since it will help on such a low end system, they usually do clock fairly well if on active cooling.

[ECLIPSED]

It's good your friend had that old card. Another possibility would have been to get a PCI gfx card like the Radeon 9250. Don't feel bad my wifes in the same boat. Using an old Vanta Rage card.

I'll have to build her a new system from my old parts and she can have my old ti4400.

[tbogstad]

I was gonna say i have a gf3 64mb you could have cheap, but looks like you already solved the problem.

my gf3 would have been faster, but the fx5200 is DX9.0, although very poor DX9.0, it is DX9.0, the gf3 is only DX8.1.

5200 is way plenty for that system.